In this video we're kind of addressing the post in response to my previous video about the example account I used for the issue at hand, i.e. delegation 4 votes. I go through the post a little but not much as it is quite long and it feels like @freecompliments took it personally when it wasn't meant to be. He was just a good example in terms of amount of unique delegations which mirrored the votes received quite nicely from those projects he delegates to.
Again, I'm not urging anyone to go out and downvote this one user in particular, however I think some reward adjustment should be accepted to this activity in general because it creates this kind of "win-win" bubble of both author and delegation account while ignoring everyone else on hive and putting the word curation to shame. I don't really think that can be disproven at this point when the autovotes are quite blatant and most of the time only land on people directly delegating to them rather than going out and curating accounts based on other merits.
It's not difficult to see that if everyone did this, then new users or smaller stakeholders would never receive much rewards on hive and wouldn't get a chance to shine or grow their stake based on the content, contributions and effort they're placing into the platform. Let's not end up like the legacy chain where this seems to be 99% of what's happening there.
PS! I'm kind of trying to grow my youtube account lately in an effort to share Hive with more people in the future, so if you wanna help me out with a subscription & like and maybe even copying your hive comment over there - I'd appreciate it!
We also got our first dislike there recently, woot, woot, making moves!
I also subscribed to your YouTube channel. Good to have a couple new channels covering Hive :)
I am not delegating my Hive to anyone maybe when I reach 100k Hive Power I will start delegating, so for now I am not exploiting this loophole :)
Awesome! We generally tell smaller users to not even delegate to @ocdb because you're better off using it to grow an audience and connect with others - it's the best tool for that yet many aren't interested in it.
I'm also not saying people shouldn't delegate in exchange for different tokens, but it should be for the tokens specifically - you need to think those tokens are going to outperform hive over time or generally bring value to Hive as a whole so that's why you delegate - not just to get a vote back because you did. That's basically having the cake and eating it too.
yeah well i dont get either why you should have warned 🤣 it's not like it was going like this
"hey ill make a video on your trade voting delegations"
"oh no sorry i understand it's a mistake ill delete delegations now"
the community account is a mirror of the main account as delegations and votes received
this scheme also drains pool for other legit users
btw remember to change your recovery account!! 🤣
haha yeah, and yes if they're both winning it's obvious who is losing out on this activity. some people pretend they're outperforming others without any consequences to hive as a whole and expect others to carry the weight while they're in their own bubble cashing in on daily posts without a care if anyone is actually consuming them or not.
And as I said, it doesn't matter who it is doing it, even if someone like @theycallmedan would suddenly start we should call it out and hold them responsible.
Yeah expecially since it's all public data, it's not like you theft data or something, you just highlighted what everyone else can see too... Then everyone makes his own mind and act as he think is correct for this situation
BTW there is an other win-win thing, not related to the rewards pool tough, some witnesses rewards who vote for them (I seen one autocommenting with tips bot and one who used to send daily 0,001/0,01 hive)
Hmm not sure what you mean, could you elaborate? if you want to do it privately my dm's are open on discord
Sure, catch you there on discord as soon as family duties are done 😅
That first dislike on YouTube is a rite of passage, it just means you're reaching more people hahaha. As for the post, I get the concern. If curation turns into a closed loop, it kinda defeats the whole purpose. Let me go ahead and send this comment to your channel man, let's grow Hive 💪 and subscribe too
Appreciate that!
was an honor to do it Mr Acidyo
I went ahead and subscribed to you. I don't spend a ton of time on YouTube usually, but I am more than happy to support you.
awesome thanks!
I wonder whether it would be possible to map delegations in a similar way to mapping the hive earned/hive held (or the other way round, can't remember) - so maybe for the top 2,500 accounts how many have more than 50% HP delegated; and maybe as a supplement look at how much of delegated HP is to the more open curation trails like curie, OCD, curangel, qurator, tipu ... maybe any others that are around ... that support a wide range of accounts.
Then maybe for the next 2,500 accounts - I can't remember how far azircon went with the analysis but you could see the change as the analysis started to hit smaller accounts after the top 2,500, where the amount of HP held was much more volatile - I'm guessing we'll see more smaller accounts with over 50% HP delegation but less HP in total because the top 2,500 accounts are behaving differently (or perhaps not).
Hmm interesting points, I have nothing against people delegating out their stake, even all of it if they don't plan on using it - but there's definitely some who remain active in posting/tribes/etc who could use the voting power to build relationships and connections and give more power to manual and autovotes coming from themselves than just delegating out to these projects that mainly only give you your stake back in whatever X amount of your selfvotes. What I do mind is what the delegation accounts do with it, just voting the delegators is a selfish/greedy thing to do for both parties involved and everyone else not doing it is paying the price.
I understand.
subscribed by the way.
I hardly put my mouth in posts like this (That concerns curation and other accounts bla bla bla...) but I do follow them up quite well. All I can say is you're doing a great job and I hope most of the target audience see it too, and put it in their own minds to make curation better.
I think I should go subscribe to your YouTube channel now 🥲🙏❤️
Thanks, and I can understand that for some people this may go a bit over their heads and they don't wanna deal with how things work or how some may be abusing things, so it's okay not to get involved as long as you yourself aren't being part of the misuse of curation.
and thanks for the subscription!
Yes Sir! Thanks for understanding...
You're highly welcome 🤗
Already did subscribe to your youtube channel and i must say i really admire your effort and love for hive. However for me i delegate to just the people am currently onboarding, cause am also trying to build up my account, but i curate as much as i can to give support to genuine authors
I will subscribe to your YouTube channel too.
thanks!
I subscribed to your youtube channel, 81st subscriber :)
For delegations I have imposed a self-rule of never delegating more than 25% of my HP.
Building connections and supporting others is worth much more in the medium to long term on Hive than delegating everything and passively earning...
Okay but it's not "passive earnings", I don't mind these accounts giving you hive returns or some kind of tokens like @zingtoken or some other perks - the issue is that they throw guaranteed votes on top of it all so that they can earn more curation rewards from the delegation while you don't lose anything from the exchange cause you also get the votes. That's what bugs me, especially when there's close to no curation going on but even if they curated picking people solely based on if they're delegating to them is against what curation stands for in my opinion and it's a slippery slope to making this platform look like garbage - especially on trending from new users.
You've posted on holozing before, we don't look at if you are/aren't delegating to our account before we decide to vote it/how much to vote it - it's based on the content, effort, interest of others in it and such factors, if that's not your main priority you'ren doing "curation" wrong and many are on that end right now.
Thanks for the follow and for not delegating too much stake out, hope you're using it well!
Thank you for your reply.
I was "dead tired" yesterday :) but I liked your post and wrote you a short comment in which I actually did not explain myself well but I agree with your point of view.
Completely agree, I have never delved into freecompliments community but any scheme to delegate to receive an upvote is a bad method of earning passively because it kills interaction and yes, it shows new users that it is not important to interact and engage in the content but it is important to delegate and this is not good advice to grow on Hive and produce negative effects on new users.
From my point of view prioritizing in some way who delegates and supports a project is not wrong or is not totally wrong but upvotes should always be proportional to the content, interaction and also the propensity for staking because Hive is a DPOS but above all the curation should always be manual for projects that receive many delegations and have many HP
You make such a good point and if not addressed in the long run, new users will just leave after some time cos the effort they put into content would go unnoticed.
Great!
the more clarity the better
The tagging thing was just about common courtesy, but that's not worth pushing (edit: and thank you for tagging me this time, it is appreciated).
Some of the points that you addressed in this video were addressed directly in my post, including how the community accounts are being used, the content of my comments, etc. It's all there. It would've been a good idea to read it before making a video about it. Again, due diligence, brother.
Anyway, on the topic of the delegation-for-vote projects, I actually addressed that in the 2nd part of my post. I can see potential good benefits, particularly for newcomers, as long as people use them responsibly, and that they can actually help retention. While I do understand your perspective and the logic behind it, I think these types of projects can be used beneficially.
Anyway, I hope your YouTube channel does help bring people into Hive! Good luck.
I mean I took a glance but it didn't really seem worth it, some points like "it's fun to do math and count the apr on earnings" or "it's good for newbies to grow", how are newbies going to grow if everyone did what you do and those accounts mainly only vote delegators? Everyone's just supposed to buy stake and look out for themselves?
At least you're acknowledging that you know what you're doing, I hope you'll reconsider your activity.
Well, newbies holding stake would also give them some votes (even if tiny ones) and result in them being a bit more encouraged to come back. What's discouraging for a lot of new people is writing content with a lot of effort and getting 0 votes (because they're new and haven't really built an audience). Getting at least a little bit, even $0.01 or $0.02, will encourage them to continue. I think HSBI is actually the most optimal way to do this, as it encourages the production of content over the course of a long period of time, and it can be delivered as a reward for good content, which I often do. In fact, I just gave out HSBI to a relatively new user today as part of a contest. He'll also see the curation from the FC Community accounts. I can guarantee he's going to be more motivated to continue creating similar types of quality posts and to continue engaging.
I'll also mention that I have no issues with the content that's being upvoted by these project accounts. I wouldn't remove my vote from them, thus voting by proxy of a delegation isn't a problem. If there were objectionable content, then that's a different story.
Thus, while I again do understand your points, and I have seen such projects completely misused at least once (the now-defunct DHEDGE comes to mind), I still think the benefits of these types of projects outweigh the downsides, particularly when used correctly.
If you curate newbies, then newbies can vote each other for 0.01-0.02 rather than relying on auto/blind votes to do so all the while they take a cut with the promise of votes as long as you delegate to them. The newbies can then also leave genuine comments that make for a better reading experience to others instead of just seeing command comments mostly or bots telling you they gave you your vote back. I find it weird how people are trying to justify these schemes in some of the most ridiculous ways when most of their workings all rely on the delegations and to maintain it they make sure to vote the delegators. I wonder what happens when people start putting an end to this with downvotes.
Please really think about the effects this has on the platform as a whole if more and more stake started doing this rather than putting the votes to use based on other merits that we should reward.
And why not do both? I take advantage of the delegation projects and also do manual curation (including in the FC community, where I have a curator who does manual curation), rewarding both posts and comments. Again, it's just a different way to distribute votes which would be given out regardless. I have no qualms about where the votes are currently going. I can see the content upvoted by each of these projects.
Now, I'll refer back to another point I made in my post:
Keep in mind that most of the users that use the delegation projects are, in fact, newer ones (i.e. accounts that are not 6-7 years old). They stand to benefit the most from them because they're starting off with a disadvantage of not being among the first people here. It's not a bad thing to give them a small boost if it's going to result in them becoming more active.
If we're going to actually do some math, the impact of the totality of the older users' HP far exceeds that of the delegation projects. We're talking about multiple millions of HP with the older users versus maybe 1-2 million HP from the delegation projects. There is plenty of "correction" that could theoretically be done on the posts created by the old guard, if you're going to do this in an honest manner. How about addressing this before you start going after the much smaller projects?
Or... just let everyone be. Nobody's hurting from the small impact of these projects, and based on their total HP, there isn't going to be any damage to Hive for a very long time - likely long after we've expired.
lol, Imagine going to a bitcoiner and being all "hey the mining difficulty should be easier for me because I wasn't here since the beginning - I should find blocks more often than you for the same hashrate".
How can you tell? It's hard to notice for sure, similar to if I were to downvote your posts and the rewards were to go to everyone else, they'd hardly notice that increase in their active posts either. a matter of fact is that these voter accounts are earning more rewards than people who've bought their stake or earned it or are putting in effort to look for content to curate for what, setting delegators on an autovote bot? Authors like you are consistently earning the same rewards from the same voters for what, posting content close to no one consumes?
Again, I'm not singling you out, I'm sure there's even worse cases out there, but this blatant selfvoting/votetrading through delegation accounts can't be defended, it's kind of ridiculous you're trying to to begin with.
Like I mentioned, compare the total HP of the existing old guard to the total HP of delegation accounts. The delegations accounts are a drop in the bucket in comparison. Old accounts upvoting each other depletes the supply far more than these delegation projects.
And I will tell you that I have had several people message me about my post in Discord. I don't think you realize that you actually intimidate people due to your threats of downvoting them. It's not as big of an impact for me, and I actually post content for the content, but for smaller users, a single downvote from you can wipe them out completely. What's their incentive to write against you?
And considering the old guard tends to earn $30 - $50 per post consistently, wiping out people who earn pennies, even if they're all from delegation projects, is a pretty cruel concept. This is very imbalanced, and I understand why people are scared of disagreeing.
Anyway, I think it would be best if agreed to disagree on this topic. While I have to be openminded because this may change in the future, for the time being, I still see these projects as beneficial. For now, I do plan to continue to use them in a manner that's beneficial to supporting newer users, particularly those who create great content. After all, isn't that we're aiming to do: support quality content?
I follow you on YouTube, I think one of the problems is that sometimes the votes are based on relationships, not on good content, so some people are discouraged from creating good content, and it's hard for new people who don't have relationships and don't have voting power. If we can solve this problem, there will be new people coming in and staying with us longer.
Convince people why they should vote for you, none of us here earn anything off of youtube and they're only sharing 70% of their advertiser money with you, not giving you literal stake in the network and future of the ecosystem. One could say getting hive rewards should be even harder and many authors have worked quite hard to get where they are now without taking shortcuts or spending all of their own stake on themselves like these projects incentivize.
It's really not that difficult to get noticed and receive rewards on Hive, you have people incentivized to curate you in terms of spreading the token out and keeping you here - these projects don't do that unless you give them your stake.
I understand that I love and am passionate about this platform because I have been around for a long time. It’s just that I have brought new people on and they have all left because it’s too hard for them, and partly because they haven’t tried hard enough.
This is your first comment in a week, it's not supposed to be that easy where you just magically expect to consistently earn rewards just cause you're here.
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Some questions are not related to the topic, but they are doubts that are on my mind, because I am in this transaction at the moment too.
Why not post (when available) the video on 3speak as well, in addition to YouTube? Wouldn't it be interesting to have it on both platforms?
I reactivated my YouTube channel, which had 1,500 subscribers, to start publishing the videos that I publish on 3speak there as well, as a way to attract the public here.
What strategies have you adopted or will you adopt to try to reach the large audience of web2?