Warning: This might be a rant.
At least, it isn't likely to be a super thoughtful post that looks at the nuances of interaction on Hive, or the various implications of one behaviour over another and whatnot. It is shaping up just to be more of a ranty observation of a conversation that is old as time (the chain) and much older as well - because it involved human behaviour.
Essentially, people work on incentives, and when there is "money" involved, the incentive is to take advantage of whatever loopholes there are to get as much of the "money" as possible. And, since this is a crypto-driven platform that allows a high degree of anonymity, there are plenty of maximisers out there willing to come up with all kinds of schemes to make themselves as much as possible.
A few years ago, probably before many of you can remember and on another chain, there was a massive problem with bidbots on the platform, where people were paying to get upvoted. I am not going to go into the specifics, but suffice to say, they were terrible for the community, for real users, but the blockchain could be used to do it, so people did it. The only counter for this was to downvote, to make the cost of buying the vote more expensive than the value gained from the vote, and that only really became possible because the "price" of downvoting was taken away and stake could downvote 2.5x a day without losing voting power.
The bidbots soon disappeared.
Well, in some form. But they have returned in many ways also, which has been highlighted recently by a few, like @acidyo and @pharesim, so I am not going to get into that much either. But, what I will say is,
What the fuck is wrong with people?
I get it - people want to make money, but what the hell happened to understanding that the trade for money is by adding something of value, which generally takes effort, but also requires demand. If people are buying their votes through delegating to some "initiative" or another, they must think their own work shitty enough that it doesn't deserve to earn. Or, they are just too lazy to produce something and then engage with the audience to build up a follower base over time. I get it, it is difficult, and I get it, English might not be a first or even second language, and I get it, times are hard, and I get it, it is difficult to draw attention here, and I get it, it takes a lot of work and time, and I get it, people want and perhaps need to earn something pretty fast...
But Hive is not a bank.
The other day I came across someone who has earned a massive amount of HIVE over the years and has a high reputation, but has around 2000 HIVE POWER and a one cent vote. I am the last one to tell people what to do with their HIVE once it is in their wallet, but if a person who is earning well is selling pretty much everything they get, it means they don't give enough of a fuck about the community to give anything back. They are unwilling to leave their stake powered up and distribute it to others on the platform who are trying to build a presence here too. They are extractors only - and no matter how good their content is, they will never invest themselves into the community to give anything back. They will never grow their stake to support people like themselves, let alone anyone else on the platform.
They are leeches.
Again, like selling and buying votes, leeches are nothing new on Hive, nor in the world. But also again, what the fuck is wrong with people? Yeah - do what you want with your stake, sell what you want of it, but when these same people who have been selling get downvoted by people who actually kept stake powered up, distribute it, and give a shit about the platform provide a few downvotes, they are the first to complain about it being unfair.
If someone is earning well and selling all they get, they are a cost to stakeholders, not a benefit. Personally, I don't give a shit how good their content is or how many people like them, if they are not staking up a chunk of their earnings, if they are not spending their time being part of the community, and the only thing they are doing is posting so they can extract their earnings, they don't deserve to be earning.
Hive doesn't provide social security.
Social security on Hive comes from being part of the community, and just like any tribe, if a member is not providing adequate value in return for the value they use, they are a cost to the tribe. At some point, they have to learn how to be valuable, or they need to be cut away - like a cancerous growth.
We all like to earn. We all dream about a future where we can sell use Hive to live a better life. We all want to improve our financial position, or have more opportunity. But, the way many people are going about it is exactly why the world is in such a shitty condition now. Jut because you can be a dick, doesn't mean you have to be a dick.
And if you don't know you are acting like a dick by selling and buying votes, if you don't know you have been acting like a dick by extracting everything you earn and not supporting others - well, it proves you are a dick - especially if you have been here for a long time. It shows you are a thoughtless maximiser who only looks at what you can get now, without thinking about what that means for others, or what it even means for yourself long term.
So, are you a dick, or just supremely ignorant?
I think that might qualify as a rant...
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Yes, I know who that is. Until the KE appeared, they were under the radar but that is no longer the case. Very blunt and well worded!
Sometimes I wonder if they "know" what they are doing - but I get the impression they must, due to the way they often turn after.
Turn for the good occasionally, I have noticed a change in a certain someone after they were knobbled weeks ago!
I don't necessarily agree with the part before
but I agree with the part after, that if all they do is post. There are however many that can provably be shown they provide other forms of value to the chain and telling those people what they're doing with their hive feels wrong, it's like a layer of sorts, if we can fight off those getting big votes who as you said quite literally do nothing else and always sell - then later we can move on to those who do a lot but still don't hold any hp, for whatever reason.
I don't disagree that those holding more should earn more either, but in a scenario where someone has never sold and only posts compared to someone earning the same who does more than just post but also sells, I don't think one is worse than the other by much.
If people wanna come here and just provide value we shouldn't judge them on what they do with their rewards, there's even proposals where people are getting hundreds of thousands of hbd but the person has no stake and sells everything. Or some who've done something in the past but haven't grown at all since a certain amount and have sold everything they've earned the last 4-5 years after keeping a certain amount but doing nothing of value since. I.e. they have some skin in the game, an amount they consider risk enough to keep but sell everything beyond that, especially if it's earned easily for maintaining a project with tiny updates here and there pretending they doing something.
The problem with this all is, there is a shared reward pool, so no matter how or what they are doing to earn HIVE, it also affects others. If they are also unwilling to invest into the future of Hive by owning some of the network, what will come of it? There is an expectation that people who earn will always earn, but they should be looking to be able to provide earnings for others too, right?
This should be stopped also. So many of the proposals have just wasted opportunity.
Again, as I mentioned in another comment, it's better to just downvote certain posts cause they in and of themselves are overrewarded, sure their constant selling can affect your decision to downvote or not but it's just a bad ux to make it about what they do with the rewards IMO if they've earned them fairly. In that case a few downvotes on the post for the usual blind voters who generally overreward them is good enough on its own rather than making it about the other thing.
I generally just downvote, and then people say "they don't even leave a comment as to why". There are plenty of places downvotes could be applied, but aren't currently at least.
Expecting a comment on obvious overrewarded posts is quite unnecessary.
They won't be able to earn forever no, that'll be their loss then. Considering the reduction of new rewards every 250k blocks and the influx of new users, someone will eventually replace them from positions of earnings or otherwise drive voting power their way instead of there and they'll never manage to get back the HP they so frivolously squandered.
I'm just saying right now there's a lot worse users farming rewards with low effort that go straight to the exchanges, hurting the ones actually doing work that affects others is maybe not the right time. Their work is still more valuable than the hive they might be selling considering half of all hive sits in exchanges and is probably owned by random traders.
And it is probably only a handful of accounts.
ehh dunno, binance is quite big, maybe a handful of US customers however :P
I'm in two minds about this. I appreciate the sentiment, and lived in it for a long time. Currently I'm in more of a 'Don't hate the player, hate the game' head-space.
If the system can be exploited there's an argument for actively exploiting it until the exploit is fixed. Part of my 'Unenforceable rules confer a competitive advantage on the disobedient' arc.
Nothing wrong with this - downvotes are part of the system to fix what a stakeholder sees as abusive.
Interesting. I'm quite new here and don't think I'm worthy to give an opinion on how stuff are run here yet, but I think you've got a solid point but I would say I completely agree with what the second commentor on this post said. I think a guy with the user name @acidyo. His perspective gives a well balanced view on this subject in my humble opinion. Respect to you sir @tarazkp for the work you've put on this chain, you're part of the reason why I have a platform to grow. I have a long term view when it comes to the chain and I think it's only reasonable and wise to grow an HP here, so that's what I'm planning on doing.
Awesome blog sir.
This is excellent.
By the way, to do so you need to keep your Hive yourself rather than exit it and then power it up (which I see you've done on a single occasion). Start powering up some of your Hive and you'll build HP, don't and you won't. It's pretty simple really.
Got it Chief, all earned Hives stay powered up. Haven't claimed anything yet.
Will also try and sell some of the HBDs to hives and power up. I saw the HBD savings thing, I wanted to build that too, is that okay?
I save my HBD which I'll swap out for Hive when the buy price of Hive drops a little.
If you power up regularly you'll start to build and your stake will give you a better vote which will earn you a better curation rewards. Supporting others with a comment and upvote is also a nice (non-monetary) reward and helps build relationships.
Good luck.
Ok chief, I followed your account to watch and learn. New to the chain so don't want to screw up. I understand the basic stuffs of don't be an asshole, but when it comes to building a reputation the right way here, I will let you lead the way.
Thanks
I saw you'd followed.
I'll be happy to help so just ask if you need to. The biggest things are:
Again, let me know if you have questions, or my brother can also help, tarazkp and others as well.
Yeah, Acid generally gives a decent view of things here - he has been around the block a few times himself :)
Respect to you guys
Generally speaking, I totally get your point in the perspective of the betterment of the hive ecosystem. However, contents in hive are made my real people and so are their financial problems. Sometimes, when we're desperate, we think irrationally. But then again, people should not put too much financial reliance on hive.
Are they made by real people though? Have you looked into it? How much is AI these days?
My opinion is that one can do whatever they want with their stake: if you earned it, it's yours, and that's ok.
However, Hive right now is in a position where it needs people working to make it thrives. Selling everything, not building your HP, shows everyone that (probably) you don't care about Hive, and that, at the very least, is bad because people reading your articles, or following you, or looking at your nice earnings, might think that that's how Hive works.
Maybe one day we will be able to have huge influencers selling all (or almost all) their stakes and that will be a drop in the ocean none will care about... who knows.
But that's not the case, yet.
People coming here have to understand that if you want to be a (good) part of Hive, you can't only think about extracting as much value as you can.
Instead, you have to give something back. Building your HP, showing that you care about Hive and what you earned here, is a good first step in the right direction.
It can't be the only criteria to support someone, but I'm happy to see that, lately, a lot more people are starting to consider it as one of the criteria to consider.
To get something you should give back something.
If you are not bringing new users, or building awesome dApps, or engaging (in a meaningful way) with others, well, you should at the very least build your HP to support others, otherwise I can't see why you should get my upvote.
People want to earn, but they don't want to take responsibility. They want value attention, but don't want to be scrutinized.
If people could, they would try to get everything without giving anything. Not sure if they don't understand that this can't work long-term... or if they don't care.
I don't like to see people fighting and it seems that a project who was criticised are changing their ways. Talking is best. Too many people have been driven away by getting caught up in conflicts.
Hive is not necessarily fair, but it offers opportunities. You just cannot take your rewards for granted and some will object if they think you are abusing the system. I get that projects want to get their fans excited, but it ought to be about adding value. Opinions will vary on what that is, but it's to be expected. I see plenty here that I have zero interest in, but I have to focus on what I enjoy and distribute votes where I think they are justified.
Yes, I know I do okay, but it seems that some appreciate what I do and I have invested a lot of time/money.
There is always Blurt. :D
Many "projects" are just schemes to extract as much Hive as possible it seems.
I'm not exactly opposed to people delegating to communities that in turn choose to support them. What's the point of delegation otherwise. There are tons of people on Hive who would make nothing for good posts if it weren't for that. I do agree though that you can't be pulling it all out. Build your account. That's the best way to grow here.
The thing with the delegation is when they are putting all of their stake into getting votes, but not supporting others. There are people here who have nothing to support with, but are earning a lot.
I totally agree with you there. It's sad the number of people who don't know enough to grow their account. They are basically shooting themselves in the foot and I won't feel sorry for them if things do end up changing.
Maybe to share stake that isn't being utilised to others who may use it to support others?
I think there are definitely some who are doing that. As I said in one of the other comments, I agree the biggest issue is people who delegate everything away and don't build their account. Then they send all the rewards the do get off the chain and I don't feel one bit of empathy for those folks. There has been talk about making delegations expire after a certain amount of time. I think that would be a really good move in the future.
It is hard to wait for alt season and it is not coming,
I am waiting during long long time and I have a little bag waiting to be a whale or an orca.
Sounds like I am a snake but I am waiting for.
I am sure when the markets will be crazy a am ready to get the advantage.
Best regards.
Alt season is on the way!
I hope.
Me too I am wAiting for it
I have been waiting during 4 years.
Hi @galberto ,I just want to say hello and wish you a happy evening.
Thanks my friend.
No doubt this is scamming and against the nature of this blockchain, but we should question why people tend to do it. Perhaps, there is not a fair vote distribution on HIVE.
The nature of the blockchain is just the code at the time, so it is "allowed" but it doesn't mean it has to be tolerated.
It's a pity that the HIVE price has very little influence on people who write weak content or try to take more from Hive than others. Understanding market cycles and buying HIVE at several times cheaper than the peak price would bring multiple HP gains to those participants who hold a lot of HBD (+15%/y). There is a very cool HIVE/HBD trading pair on the internal exchange.
Most people will never actually buy HIVE - they want it for "free" at the expense of others.
Snakes are everywhere indeed. The menace of vote buying is very detrimental to adding real value to the community as a whole because hardworking hivers would be drawn into feeling that their hardwork is not enough. The annoying thing about this vote buying is that the users do not even produce useful contents. You will see a content of few lines and nothing useful to learn from and then upvotes everywhere and you would be wondering where you got it wrong…The leeches should be flush out…if not totally at least be reduced to the barest minimum m. Money should come from adding real value not abuse
For many, it isn't useful, it isn't interesting, it isn't funny - is it content at all?
Never knew "Snakes in the city" is here as well
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I am still a student and i obviously don't earn that much so it hasn't been that easy but still i try my best to power up whenever i can and i even power up some of posts because i obviously believe in giving back to the community and also helping others the way i have been helped to grow. Also, at the same time , i take a look at some peoples wallet after they must have spent like 5 years on the platform and i usually wonder if they actually even earned anything or were active in the past because of the amount of hive power present in their wallet.
Wise words said here😂😂
The maximisers are a real problem nowadays and sadly it doesn't look like something that's soon to stop.
There's an ever active inflow of those who choose to be dicks
There are a lot of blurry and weird positions all over Hive. For beginners (that mostly replicate what they see) it might be a huge problem if all they se are leeches. They would think that that's the only important thing to do on Hive. I already have almost two years here, and I've had a good guide at the very beginning, and then I helped others to start posting on the platform, and the first thing I always say is "This is a place to share your value eith the community". Actually, I didn't know that this massive problem existed. Such a thoughtful post, Mr. Gen 1 👏🏻
Some people just take and never give back, it's the nature of some, thankfully not all. If everyone did that, Hive wouldn’t work at all, I don't think I would have come to meet it like this haha. Very strong point man